Was Imam Al Shawkani A Sufi?
#1
04-19-2010, 08:05 PM
Bassam Zawadi
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,814
Was Imam Al Shawkani A Sufi?
Assalamu Alaykum,
I ask this because he said that he learned some dhikr from the Naqashbandia:
Quote:
وقد تلقيتُ منه الذكر على الطريقة النقشبندية
Also, it appears that he retracted his takfeer of Ibn Arabi.
#2
04-19-2010, 09:00 PM
al-boriqee
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassam Zawadi
Assalamu Alaykum,
I ask this because he said that he learned some dhikr from the Naqashbandia:
Also, it appears that he retracted his takfeer of Ibn Arabi.
brother, Shawkaani was everything.
asalamu alaikum
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#3
04-20-2010, 02:54 AM
rizwan
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,485
Salaam. Ahki Al-Boriqee can you elaborate on that. Apparantley he allowed Tawssaul through the Prophet.
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#4
04-20-2010, 03:36 AM
al-boriqee
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizwan
Salaam. Ahki Al-Boriqee can you elaborate on that. Apparantley he allowed Tawssaul through the Prophet.
yeah inshallah
simple
he slipped
rahimahullah
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#5
04-20-2010, 06:11 AM
rizwan
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,485
Salaam. Wasnt Ash-Shawkani around at the same time of Muhammed Bin Abdul Wahaab. When Muhammed bin Abdul Wahaab was an older man Ash-Shawkani would have been around 20-30....does Ash-Shawakani have any words on Muhammed Bin Abdul Wahaab.
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#6
04-20-2010, 11:04 AM
abu musayyad
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 332
Alaikum salaam.
Ustad Yaasir qadhi mentioned he was praised by famous scholars of his time such as al sana'aani and ash showkaani no explicit words were mentioned.
#7
04-20-2010, 11:19 AM
Um-Habibah
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 74
Wa Alykom Asalam,
I thought he was a Zaidi since he raised in San'aa and learned a lot from many of its Zaidiy'ah scholars. But seems that a lot said about his Aqeedah.
Read more here:
http://www.saaid.net/Doat/Zugail/257.htm
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#8
04-20-2010, 01:01 PM
tajdeed
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Quote:
Salaam. Ahki Al-Boriqee can you elaborate on that. Apparently he allowed Tawssaul through the Prophet.
well no. its boriqee who slips. tawassual through the prophet is a disputed fiqhi issue. not something to make people kafir over.
#9
04-20-2010, 01:05 PM
daeef
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajdeed
well no. its boriqee who slips. tawassual through the prophet is a disputed fiqhi issue. not something to make people kafir over.
the word "slip" doesnt refer that he become kafir!
#10
04-20-2010, 01:46 PM
rizwan
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,485
Salaam. According to Majority of the salaf it's not permitted. The Fiqhi ihktilaf is tawassul through the status of the prophet. As far as I know Tawassul through the prophet wasn't practiced by the sahaba Nor the salaf. Those hadeeth regarding Tawassul through the prophet are weak, refer to Shaikh Albani's book on Tawassul for further insight into those week chains.
The Established Tawassul was through the righteous living such as the authentic hadeeth in Sahih Al-Bukhari where the Sahaba went to Al-Abbas and asked him to make dua. This authentic hadeeth overwrites those weak hadeeth because those week hadeeth go against this authentic and in hadeeth science when a weak report goes against the sahih then tbe sahih is accepted.
And Allah knows best.
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#11
04-20-2010, 07:25 PM
al-boriqee
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajdeed
well no. its boriqee who slips. tawassual through the prophet is a disputed fiqhi issue. not something to make people kafir over.
The dispute that is disputed over IN FIQH is in calling to Allah alone Through the jah of muhammad.
Unfortunately if my memory serves me correct, that was not his form of tawwassul. Rather the form of tawwassul was in calling out to Muhammad directly. The bigot as-subki and poor excuse of a shafi'i had even declared that act as shirk, and this is coming from the extremis supporter of tawwassul.
Whatever the case, those were his early days as it was clearly evidence as to how he aligned to the madhaab of shaykhul-islam later in his life.
Barakallahu feek for the reminder, i do slip at times, make dua for me that I become firm upon he sifaat al-mustaqeem, the manhaj of the Muslim minfadlik
asalamu alaikum
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#12
04-20-2010, 07:26 PM
al-boriqee
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by daeef
the word "slip" doesnt refer that he become kafir!
Thank you for relinquishing me from his slip.
Lol
asalamu alaikum
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#13
04-21-2010, 04:13 PM
Abu Madinah
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 49
Assalamu alaikum. This question is directed to anyone who would like to answer it. If asking the Prophet (saw) to pray for you when he is alive isn't shirk (infact it was even encouraged), then how can it be shirk when he (saw) is dead?
#14
04-21-2010, 05:02 PM
rizwan
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,485
Salaam. Because Tawassul through the Righteous living is permitted. Simple as That. Likewise after the Death of the Prophet (pbuh) the accepted practice was that the Sahabas would go to Al-Abbas, Uncle of the prophet, and they would do Tawassul through him. If they could go to the Prophet grave, why didnt they, why would they to Al-Abbas, who has highter status, no doubt the Prophet? But he passed away so they went to Al-Abbas.
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#15
04-21-2010, 06:06 PM
Abu Madinah
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 49
As-salamualaikum rizwan. Thankyou for responding. I would of thought that the reason why the Sahabah never approached his (saw) grave and asked him (saw) to supplicate to Allah (swt) for them, was because there was no evidence for the Sahabah to do this. But the lack of evidence is not a case for you to say, "therefore doing such a thing (i.e. tawassul) is shirk."
#16
04-21-2010, 10:25 PM
rizwan
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,485
Salaam. Why not?
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#17
04-21-2010, 10:45 PM
al-boriqee
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu Madinah
Assalamu alaikum. This question is directed to anyone who would like to answer it. If asking the Prophet (saw) to pray for you when he is alive isn't shirk (infact it was even encouraged), then how can it be shirk when he (saw) is dead?
this is an unanswerable question because no one, including the most extreme wahhabi considered it shirk to begin with. Thus you are asking a question that never was (bore fruition).
chronologically speaking, as you said, when he was alive, it was definately encouraged. When he passed away, the companions just simply went to someone else who was alive. That was their sunnah anyways. Whether you are pleased with their sunnah or not is beyond this discussion here.
asalamu alaikum
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#18
04-21-2010, 10:53 PM
al-boriqee
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizwan
Salaam. Why not?
because a claim on ibaada REQUIRES adilla (evidence)
in other words, Abu Madina is correct. If something was not declared shirk verbatimly, then it cannot be declared shirk later.
so Abu Madina's argument is valid when he said
Quote:
But the lack of evidence is not a case for you to say, "therefore doing such a thing (i.e. tawassul) is shirk."
however, Our argument is exemplified by the fact that Abu Madina's argument is predicated on an incorrect idea that we, or wahhabis, or salafis, or whoever CLAIMED that it was shirk, which is simply incorrect because no one claimed it to be shirk. They only claimed to make du'a TO other than Allah directly by which the whole ummah of Muhammad i agreed upon this point, even the imaams whom sufis claim validate their shirk.
now, some of our imaams may have rendered it a "bida" which actually is a bida lexically and ritually, but claiming something bida or "sabab" (i.e. road to shirk) is a whole galaxy from claiming that something IS shirk in and of itself (fi nafsiha)
asalamu alaikum
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#19
04-22-2010, 03:07 AM
Um Abdullah M.
Moderator of Aqeedah Forum
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu Madinah
Assalamu alaikum. This question is directed to anyone who would like to answer it. If asking the Prophet (saw) to pray for you when he is alive isn't shirk (infact it was even encouraged), then how can it be shirk when he (saw) is dead?
not all salafi scholars consider that shirk, some do and many don't, they consider it bidah that leads to shirk.
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#20
04-22-2010, 03:11 AM
Abu Madinah
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 49
As-salamu alaikum al-boriqee. I think you have hit the nail on the head. Thanks very much. But I will say one thing though, the Wahabi movement (i'm not trying to be pejorative), did kill Muslims and made their women and children captives thinking they were of the mushrikeen.
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